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Offbeat antenna design questions - RF Cafe Forums
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mgburr
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Post subject: Offbeat antenna design questions
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:45 am
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009
11:19 am Posts: 4 Location: Jacksonville,
FL |
Most of the design software and classes etc are
geared towards the microwave communication/RADAR
industry. I've got a unique situation where I work
in the 2-5KHz range. Yes Kilo, it's not a fat finger
on the keyboard. I work for an industrial metal
detecor manufacturing company that uses Pulsed Eddy
current for detection of metal in a product. I am
trying to move our Analog systems completely over
to Digital and already have a pretty good Digital
starting point. That being said, our digital system
isn't very sensitive because it was designed for
our workhorse system. We have analog systems that
are able to detec a piece of tramp metal that is
1.5% of the size of the apperture between the transmit
and receive antennas. I would like to get some ideas/thoughts/ramblings
on how I can improve the sensitivity of the receive
antenna, to be able to work at slightly higher frequencies(i.e.
10KHz, and 40KHz). The truly unique part is we wind
our antennas by hand. The transmit coil follows
the basic rules for the inductance of a coil and
can be modled fairly easily. The receive coil isn't
as easy. Here is a link to a question i posted to
eng-tips.com (
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm? ... 049&page=1
). It has a graphical representation of the receive
antenna towards the bottom of the page. There are
more details to the receive antenna available, such
as buck winding for higher turn ratio and use with
higher frequencies. I look forward to any
thoughts.
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nubbage |
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:37 pm
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General |
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Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006
12:07 pm Posts: 236 Location: London UK
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Hi mgburr Golly that question takes me back
a way, to when I was running a tech department serving
our surveyors who were surveying city streets in
the UK to map buried pipes and cables. We developed
a combined tone and metal detector based on a 90
degree crossed transmit and receive coil pair, at
a frequency of 2500 hertz. initially we used
a linear bipolar cascode amplifier front end followed
by a diode detector. This was fairly sensitive in
the absence of mains electrical noise, but quickly
saturated when confronted with high levels of same.
We used a Q mulitplier single resonator filter with
current fed back into a parallel tuned L with a
tapped winding. Eventually we developed a FET
bomb-proof front end amp and a cross-coupled quad
of igfets as the synchronous detector. With
this we were able to locate steel pipe 24 inch diameter
at 20 times coil separation. How is that for
a start? Maybe I have some circuits back home. I
will see what I can find, but we are talking 35
years ago here so the circuit technology is from
the caves era.
_________________ At bottom, life is all
about Sucking in and blowing out.
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mgburr |
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:13 pm
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009
11:19 am Posts: 4 Location: Jacksonville,
FL |
nubbage, thanks for the thoughts and ideas. Our
antennas are anywhere from a coil length of 18 inches
up to a custom 144 inches. We don't have the antennas
crossed, but inline. The ability to measure the
desired material comes from looking for the eddy
curent decay after the pulse. If you had a chance
to see the receive antenna in the link to the eng-tips
website you might get an idea of some of the problem.
It is essentially wrapped as a figure 8, but then
is bent in the middle and placed side by side. Although
I wonder if it might work a little better for the
recieve to use a flat wind instead of a bundle wind?
I've got an instrumentation amplifier as the differential
amp to get a fairly large amount of sensitivity,
and using a programable gain amplifier to bring
the signal down to a manageable level. Most of what
this was designed from(i.e. the digital crossover
from analog) was designed 40 years ago, so it might
be usefull and an idea on how I can proceed. Hoping
to get as much sensitivity and signal strength as
possible without having to "Fix" the previously
designed hardware.
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nubbage |
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:20 am
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General |
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Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006
12:07 pm Posts: 236 Location: London UK
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Hi mgburr I have now had time to look at the
link. I still think the best antenna configuration
is 2 cylindrical coils wound on ferrite and placed
so they are at right angles, say transmitting across
the conveyor, and receiving through the conveyor
(hopeully made of non-metal such as rubber). With
only the transmit horizontal field vector present
the pulse will generate a horizontal B vector. Using
a vertical receive coil on ferrite there will be
no energy coupled into it, since it responds only
to a vertical B field. In the presence of even
a small piece of metal, the eddy current at 2kHz
running around the conductor generates a complex
randomly oriented B field vector. When resolved
into its horizontal and vertical components, there
will be some energy in the vertical vector direction,
that will be picked up as a pulse in the receive
coil. On the topic of filtering covered on the
link message board, we transformed the impedance
of the receive coil to 1000 ohms using a small signal
transformer, and got rid of most of the L component
of impedance by a series capacitor. The same way
was used to shape the drive current waveform into
the transmit inductor/antenna. At a 1000 ohms nominal
resistive load impedance, classical filter design
can be used. However in the early models we just
used a Q-multiplier circuit by feeding the signal
into a transistor base of a common emitter current
amplifier, and connecting part of the emitter current
back through the near-ground few turns of the filter
inductor. We easily obtained a loaded Q of 200 this
way. Using a pulsed source should enable you
to use a synchronous detector clocked by the transmitter
pulse, thereby getting rid of mains supply harmonic
noise.
_________________ At bottom, life is all
about Sucking in and blowing out.
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mgburr |
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:50 pm
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009
11:19 am Posts: 4 Location: Jacksonville,
FL |
Hi nubbage, The antennas were designed quite
few years ago and we don't want to drastically change
the concept. We want to be able to replace an antenna
and have it operatie identically to what was replaced.
That being said, the hand winding does tend to negate
that because of inconsistencies caused by human
error. As far as the operation over the conveyor.
We do have some conveyors in which we have to "ignore"
steel cords that are used for ripstop. so it can
be an issue where there is metal in the conveyor
that isn't tramp. If you were to look at the transmit
and receive antennas ligned up you would almost
see the 90 degree of seperation. The transmit is
a single coil approximately 5&3/4 inch across
and is centered over the receive section. The gap
between the coils on the receive section is usually
about 1/4 inch, and they are wound with 5&1/2
inch gaps in the middle. So we have a way to see
the polarity as it passes over each receive section,
i.e. creates a positive transition and negative
transition as the material travles across the receive
field of view. both antennas are setup on the horizontal
plane and but the eddy current decay happens in
all 3 classical directions. So this is what we are
picking up. The design of being under the conveyer
limits our ability to build up, yet we can build
out forward and backwards. This can sometimes improve
reception, however it also becomes sensitive to
hands running within the field.
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mgburr |
Post subject: Re: Offbeat antenna design questions
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:51 am
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009
11:19 am Posts: 4 Location: Jacksonville,
FL |
Hi nubbage,
I did start looking at Grover's
equation for polygon antennas, but I'm not sure
how the crossover in the center between the 2 lobes
will affect the formula. It works out fairly accurate
for antennas with a 42 inch or longer side. When
I go below that however, it tends to run the inductance
a little low. I know the turn ratio for the transmit
antennas is correct in that I have wound them and
tried them. Could the shorter antenna coil length,
with the low frequency be affecting the inductive
reactance?
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nubbage |
Post subject: Re: Offbeat antenna design questions
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:46 am
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General |
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Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006
12:07 pm Posts: 236 Location: London UK
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Hi mgburr You've reminded me there is a third
antenna config, which places the wires of a flat
plane transmit coil over the mid-point of the received
coil circle. This also causes a null, but I have
not tried this method myself. It has the merit it
is virtually the same coil geometry as what you
are using. I think most commercial amateur metal
detectors for archeology:treasure hunting use this
config. The coil impedance at lower frequencies
may well be influenced by mutual capacitance due
to having to wind a large number of turns on the
coil. That was why we used ferrite: to reduce the
number of turns needed at 2kHz for the inductance
required. The stray inter-winding capacitance was
therefore lower. If you do not wish to change
the coil geometry, then (assuming you are achieving
a good null in the absence of metal on the conveyor,
and a good received signal in the presence of metal),
the rest comes down to filtering of noise (particularly
supply noise) which we achieved by a simple Q multiplier.
The next is the detection process so you just detect
the size of metal you are interested in, and it
is repeatable reliably. As I said before, because
you are using a pulsed transmit signal, the best
approach to the detector would be a synchronous
type. There are many designs available for these.
_________________ At bottom, life is all
about Sucking in and blowing out.
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Posted 11/12/2012
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